195. T.H.R.I.V.E and Date with Purpose After Divorce with Tonya Carter

If you have ever found yourself questioning the societal framework of marriage and divorce or are curious about how to navigate the complex world of relationships post-divorce, you'll find this episode insightful. I'm joined on the Podcast by Tonya Carter, an accomplished marriage and relationship exit strategist. This episode shines a spotlight on mental and emotional resilience, recognizing it as the greatest challenge that accompanies this journey.

We take a look into the post-divorce dating world, where Tonya talks on using personal experiences and values to guide your choices. We also discuss the importance of taking a hiatus from dating, embracing singleness positively, and the imperative need for discernment and trust in oneself while navigating new relationships. Tonya also emphasizes the power of having clear criteria when entering into relationships.

Featured on the Show: Tonya Carter

Tonya is a Marriage/Relationship Exit Strategist. She uses her knowledge, personal experience, and expertise to help women‎ navigate through the process of uncoupling by providing support, advice, resources and tools ‎that will help mitigate interruptions in their business, work performance and household obligations. ‎

She’s the author of “Divorce Your Story: A Woman’s Guide to Heal & Thrive after Divorce” and ‎she also facilitates her signature program “T.H.R.I.V.E” - a 12 week program to gain the strategies and tools to exit out of a relationship properly, heal intelligently, and enter & evolve into a life of freedom and fulfillment.

She also hosts a podcast called “ The Purposely Thriving Podcast” and she’s a graduate of DeVry & Central Michigan University.

She is from Atlanta where she resides with her two children.

• Tonya’s Website
• Tonya’s Instagram 
• Tonya’s Facebook
• Tonya’s YouTube
• Tonya’s Podcast

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Transcript

Sade Curry: 0:29

Hello everyone, welcome back to the dating after divorce podcast. I am your host, Sade Curry. I have a special guest here on Zoom with me on this podcast, Tonya Carter. Tonya is a marriage and relationship exit strategist. We're going to talk about that. Tonya uses her knowledge, personal experience and expertise to help women navigate through the process of uncoupling and she provides support for that, advice, resources, tools that help them mitigate interruptions in their business, work performance and household obligations. Tonya is the author of Divorce your Story a woman's guide to heal and thrive after divorce, and she also facilitates her signature program, thrive, a 12-week program to gain the strategies and tools to exit out of a relationship properly, heal intelligently and enter and evolve into a life of freedom and fulfillment. She's also the host of the podcast, the purposely thriving podcast, and she lives in Atlanta with her two children. Welcome to the podcast, Tonya.

Tonya Carter: 1:33

Thank you so much, Shadekuri. I'm very excited to be here.

Sade Curry: 1:37

Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you. Please tell the listeners a little bit about this work. I am so intrigued by your title.

Tonya Carter: 1:45

Yeah, you know I was going by divorce coach. It just didn't connect with me. I just didn't like the title. I felt like I was more. I think it was just more deeper than that and even for the other divorce coaches they do it more deeper than that. I just didn't feel like the title complimented it and I was like I can't do it and I just was. It just hit me one day and it was like you know what?

Tonya Carter: 2:06

You are an exit strategist and you know when we're talking about exiting out of something we're talking about. You know leaving, we're talking about a way out, we're talking about departure, and what I find is that many people leave but they don't have a strategy behind it, right. And so when we talk about strategy, we're talking about a master plan, we're talking about designing, we're talking about being an architect now and we're talking about being the storyteller and gaining authority over our lives, going forward. Divorce can bring a lot of limitations, unconsciously, in regards to who we can be and what we can have and where we can go in our lives, and so I wanted to change it to compliment that. That was the work that I was really doing.

Sade Curry: 2:49

Yeah, yeah, no, I totally resonate with that Like 100%. When I went through my divorce, I was piecing together all of these little pieces of help and support and strategies and tools to deal with all the different parts of things that came up Absolutely Because there's so many layers.

Tonya Carter: 3:09

It's not just the person, it's the finances, the children. You may have to really move. Okay, you're talking about families. In terms of their family, everybody is involved in this process. The legal part of it all. We're talking about the physical part, the mental, emotional, spiritual, professional. It impacts even how you lead. If you have a business or organization, or your productivity in the workplace, heartbreaks are very impactful and so being intentional is very important, and I just was like I'm a relationship exit strategist. That's what I do. That compliments me all day.

Sade Curry: 3:50

So yeah, 100%. I love that you really call that out, because for how common divorce is, it seems like there seem to be way more tools and it is changing. I will say for sure it's changing over the last decade or so. Things are way better than they used to be. For how common it is, there seem to be way more tools for preventing it than actually making it something that people can handle with a lot less wear and tear on their mental health, on their physical bodies, on the children. I mean, we had right around 40% to 50% divorce rate in the United States for decades probably 50 to 60 years give or take the numbers. So for something that is that prevalent, it would make sense that we would have more exit strategies, that we would have more tools, more techniques put together for this. It's like how we have a lot of support around people passing away because we know it's going to happen.

Tonya Carter: 4:57

It's going to happen.

Sade Curry: 4:58

So you have the support, you have the tools, you have the companies that help you with all the different parts of it.

Tonya Carter: 5:04

We need the same thing for divorce, because it happens, it actually does and it's going to keep happening.

Tonya Carter: 5:11

I mean, there are going to be marriages that maybe can be savaged, but there are going to be some that it's just gotten to the end of the road and I think it's so associated with the guilt and the shame and the humiliation and how we have connected divorce to be. We already make it as if it's just the most unbearable thing you should do. It's the most you didn't try, or it comes with a lot of shame, whether even in the spiritual realm being a Christian myself and just seeing how it's not even talked about in that aspect and you're left to figure it out when divorce is so equivalent to death in regards to grieving. But we know when we lose a loved one, everybody coming over food, money they got you but divorce is one of those things where you really are there to figure it out on your own and I agree, I think we're. It's getting better in conversation, and so I commend every woman or even man who's helping people in this season, because it is a lot to unpack and then reinvent yourself going forward.

Sade Curry: 6:23

Yeah, 100 percent. What are the biggest, and then divorce is like. It's this long journey from the decision all the way in terms of the strategies that you think women should have. Where is the biggest? Like not in the journey.

Tonya Carter: 6:44

I'm going to be honest with you. I think it's mental and emotional state. I think, in terms of, we've been told to push through a lot. I would say definitely in my culture, right, the pushing through is, it's a gift and a curse. I'm going to be honest with you, and sometimes we have internalized pushing through as suppress, ignore, overlook, let's sweep it under the rug and let's just move on with life, believing that we're going to win. And what I find is that a lot of people are in autopilot, so they're not even aware that they're in this cycle, as opposed to being a season, so they don't feel, they don't deal, they don't even understand the words that they're saying is a reflection of their beliefs. And I've seen quite a few women connect their divorce to failure, which, of course, they lead in life with that mindset that I'm a failure, and so it impacts how they show up, even in these other relationships. And so I find that the mental and emotional state is probably the most impactful, and that's internal.

Tonya Carter: 7:57

A lot of my clients are task driven women who get things done Right. It's not that they sit around the house and do nothing, they actually do a lot. You know whether you are the woman who works in the home with your children, or you are somebody who works outside of the home. You get things done, but it's the internal stuff. You have to do the work, and that's a different kind of work because you have to feel and you have to be vulnerable, and that's something that many may not have ever been connected to.

Tonya Carter: 8:29

So getting people to almost slow down is what I have, you know is can be the challenge. Getting you to slow down, because we're always on. I got to get you know it's like no, we got to slow down, we got to pause, we got to think about what we're thinking about. We got to feel how we're really feeling. We can't, we don't always have to be these superwoman in terms of believing that we were okay. We don't have to always be strong because we got to wear this mask of believing that we always supposed to have it together, and so it's that part that I find to be the main thing.

Sade Curry: 9:04

Yeah, yeah, no, 100%. It's all on the it's. That's the engine. Yes, how you're thinking is the engine, and my experience is that I came to my divorce with a lot of suppression, so just live my life the whole time up until that point, and then the divorce like cracked all of it open the childhood trauma, the marital trauma. I had no choice.

Tonya Carter: 9:31

Right, yeah, and facing yourself in that vulnerable state is not as easy as it sounds. Because you got to, you have to take accountability now. You have to take ownership because it's your life. This isn't about what someone's done to you. It's about you now. It's about I want to reinvent myself. That's why I wrote my book Divorce your story. We got to change the narrative and it starts by looking within and peeling back the layers, and that can be a very difficult thing to do. Yeah, that's the most free in place. You can't live the life you want to live if you're not authentic to who you are. I just don't really see how you could do that. Yeah.

Sade Curry: 11:30

Yeah, yeah, very true. So I wanted to pivot to your story a little bit. Is it your story that has led led you to this work?

Tonya Carter: 11:41

You know, shadeh, honestly, I would say yes and then no, because that wasn't my expectation. Okay, that wasn't my plan. Let me be honest with you. I, when I, when I started my work, I just didn't like my life. Um, here it is, five years post my divorce. My father had a heart attack, actually, and that's what gave me that awakening that I was an autopilot. So I got divorced in 2010. And I thought that leaving was going to get, was going to be my guaranteed gateway to happiness. And it doesn't quite work that way.

Tonya Carter: 12:17

Right, I saw my life being the same, the years being the same. Every year was a repeat of the previous year. I saw myself entertaining relationships, or I would say, situations ships, that weren't incongruent with my character. Um, I didn't. I didn't like where I was from, a financial place, I didn't like the choices I was making, and the day that my dad had a heart attack was the actual day that I woke up and I just looked and thought about my life for a moment, because my father was at my house the day before and the next day, less than 24 hours later, I got to go to the hospital. And that changes you, because it's like okay, how you going to be up in my house the day before and you in the hospital, and so it made me think about my life. Um, I took care of my obligations, but I just wasn't fulfilled it had. It wasn't about my children, it was just really about me.

Tonya Carter: 13:16

And that was the day, march of 2015, that I decided to make a change, but I didn't know what it looked like. I just knew I couldn't keep doing what I was doing, and I went on this, my own personal journey, and I, I, um, I joined personal development communities and I was told from one of my coaches you should talk about divorce, and I didn't want to do it because I didn't want to put a, I didn't want to put this um energy out that I was promoting people to get a divorce, and so I actually was in prayer about it. To be honest with you and um, I've been doing it since 2017 and I love it now because I've helped, I'm able to help people get through a very difficult season, and so I would say that I was open to the unknown and I allowed myself to embrace the unfamiliar. You know what I'm saying, because you couldn't have told me 10 years ago that I would be doing this.

Sade Curry: 14:14

Yeah, let's talk about that phrase I've heard. I've been asked that question many times Are you promoting divorce? So I hope you're not promoting divorce. You know my old friends who hear what I'm doing, even, interestingly, even new acquaintances. I met someone about a month ago at an event and I introduced myself. I said, oh, this is what I do. And then they said, well, I hope it's not promoting you know, they said they they feel like, well, as long as you're not promoting divorce, right, you know? So there's, there is still this stigma around the work of supporting people who are going through the divorce that it is promoting divorce. And I mean, I have my thoughts, but I want to hear yours.

Tonya Carter: 15:01

Yeah, I've been, I've been told that, I've been told. Well, it seems like you promote divorce, but what? What people fail to understand is that people come to me when they've already made the decision. They they pretty much, they're done. These are women who've been married for decades. A lot of the times, these aren't individuals who got married for a year and decided to leave.

Tonya Carter: 15:25

Also, I would say even a person, because I'm going to be honest with you, shade, I don't think every marriage needs a divorce. However, I also believe that there are marriages that just need to divorce, and it's we're talking a person's safety here, as opposed to just telling people that they should stay in something that is very unsafe for their quality of life. When your children are being exposed to unhealthy dynamics on a daily basis, you have to understand that it does impact them. It impacts you mentally, emotionally, physically, financially. It just does a lot. Unsafe relationships can make you sick. So I'm not here, but I'm also not here to promote it. I'm here to get you to think, but it's up to you to decide.

Tonya Carter: 16:17

But when people want to work with me, most of them are already divorced. They could be going through the divorce process, and when they think about everything that took place and we do the work, they realize that it is time to dissolve. Most women give up. They do a lot before they make this decision. I don't find too many women that just wakes up and says, hey, you know what, I'm just going to get a divorce today. They have already maybe have been to therapy, counseling, see, you know, read books, listen to podcasts, probably even changing things about themselves that they didn't even want to change, just to save the marriage. A lot has been done and when the gap has gotten so big, reconciliation becomes small. And at this point, emotionally, she's checked out and it's still a tough decision for her to do, because how do you, how we internalize divorce to be so? You know, I don't necessarily pay attention to people like that because unless you've been through it, you can't speak on it to me.

Sade Curry: 17:22

Yes, you understand. That's the crux right there, because it's it's said as though the women who are going through this and the men who are going through this as though they're not adults, yeah, and as if they didn't try, as if they didn't try, and I'm saying you don't know what goes on behind the four walls of someone's home.

Tonya Carter: 17:43

I've learned that so much with the work that I do and I'm sure you have seen, and just seeing in the work that you do everywhere. Well, they look so happy. Well, you saw a real on social media. You know you can't dictate a real. You know, and compare that to what someone deals with on a daily basis and so you know. I just encourage people to be less judgemental unless you actually have been through it. I don't really pay attention to, to individuals like that. I don't yeah.

Sade Curry: 18:15

And for that I use kind of like when I was working through this and really trying to explain it to women themselves who need a divorce, want a divorce but are struggling with that narrative around them is you know, when you have a surgeon, you have an oncologist. You know, nobody asks an oncologist who says, hey, you need surgery and this surgery is going to be this big deal, because, I mean, some surgeries are like a huge deal cutting open, cracking things open. No one tells the oncologist that he's promoting cutting people open and having them bleed all over the table. Right, right, surgeoning is great. Nobody likes it. It's painful, it's expensive. But the oncologist knows, hey, there's something happening here that can kill you.

Tonya Carter: 19:04

Absolutely. But people put make divorce is the most a moral act. Yeah, aside of everything else, I mean you can abuse and mistreat someone for 20 years and decide to stay together. That seems to be more commendable because you stayed and fought and you tolerated the most intolerable dynamic. I don't necessarily agree with that. To be honest with you, if you decide to say that's your business. But I don't think you have to endure Decades of pain only to be looked as if you you didn't leave and that made you loyal right. And I think we have to redefine what loyalty means, because many of us are loyal to a fault, and even at our own detriment, and when loyalty becomes the exchange of that, we have to realize what are we being disloyal to when it comes to ourselves, when doing things such as that?

Sade Curry: 19:57

Yeah, yeah. And also looking at just the fact that the law you know, the secular law does allow for it. The same way, the secular law allows for the dissolution of a business partnership, it allows for bankruptcy if you need it. Nobody wants a bankruptcy, right.

Tonya Carter: 20:13

They don't. They don't.

Sade Curry: 20:14

Financial situation requires it, because of bankruptcy is a situation and, of course, I'm not an analyst. This is not financial advice but my understanding is that, hey, so you can protect your home when you're not homeless, so that you can protect, like, the assets that keep you, you know, your life going. Then you agree to have this thing on your record so that you don't, you know, lose the things that you don't lose the home over your children's heads, things like that. The law allows for those things In a way to help people when they're in a situation that is just untenable, and divorce is similar. That's the way the law looks at. It is like, ok, well, we don't, we're not saying we're going to go do this, but in the situation where you need to do it, it is not an illegal act.

Tonya Carter: 21:00

Correct. It's not an illegal act. Right, my goal is for people to not heart in their hearts. You know what I mean, because I think the heart can really having a heart and heart impacts your life, and that's my goal. I want people to make sure that they don't hearten it. I want you to soften your heart, because divorce can do that to you, and that's really where I leave from a lot, of, a lot of the time. And, yeah, I just you know I don't really have much to say. When people talk in that manner, I'm sure they may have good intentions, but the fact of the matter is is that divorce happens and it's going to happen, and it's our responsibility. If we can help people navigate that season, it can change the whole trajectory of their lives for themselves and their children, and to me, that's very that's more important.

Sade Curry: 21:53

Yeah, yeah, amazing. So what are your? What are the tools that you use? Your program is a 12 week program. To you know, move through divorce and we're going to save some time for those of you that are waiting for the part where we get to dating. We're going to save some time for that. But like, what are those tools? Like when you talk about not hardening your heart, you know, not letting divorce turn you into the person that you aren't, what does that journey look like?

Tonya Carter: 22:20

Okay, One of the biggest journeys is mental and emotional intelligence. I'm going to be honest with you. That was, that is a key factor, and we talk about that in week two of my program. You have to. You have to start being more aware of what you're thinking and how you're feeling, and also knowing how to manage what you're thinking and how you're feeling. I'm not, and what this does is giving women the ability to get more in tuned, getting more connected to themselves, getting more connected to their feelings.

Tonya Carter: 22:54

Asking why do I feel this way? Challenging why we feel this way, because a lot of what we may believe may not necessarily be a truth. It may be a thought or belief that's been in us ever since we were born, or maybe even past experiences. So what we do is deeper than just divorce. We have to look at a lot of our past to understand how we got to this point in our relationships. When women tell me I didn't speak, I didn't have a voice that could have stemmed something way before your marriage, it could have been something that was generated in childhood, that just happened to bleed into your marriage, and so a lot of that first is mental and emotional intelligence. There's just no way you can even do the work If you're not reframing your thoughts, if you're not challenging what you're thinking about and realizing that I need to change this narrative, because this narrative isn't true as to who. I am being able to be honest about your feelings. I'm jealous right now. Let's not just say we're angry. Let's just not say we're sad. Let's get real clear on what this emotion is. Is it disappointment? Is it discouragement? Is it fear? The unknown? That's scary, because you don't know what this next journey is going to look like, even if walking away was the best decision. So now we have to start naming our emotions unapologetically, because we've been told you shouldn't feel this way or guess what you're strong. All that does is suppress everything into how we feel. So that's something that I have my clients do every day, three times a day for 30 days. You have to do it, and what ends up happening is that you have to have strategies. You got to know how to stop and pause. You can't just think you're going to do the work if you don't stop and pause and think about what you're thinking, about Different tools. Maybe you need to breathe, maybe you need to sleep on it before you make that decision. As simple as it is, it's not as easy for most.

Tonya Carter: 25:01

One of the things that we also do I do three assessments with my clients, more so towards the end of the program and the goal of that assessment. Because one of the things that I find in quite a few women is identity. I don't know who I am. Who am I after this? And when people say, well, you should just find yourself that I mean we get it, but that you know. When you don't know what that means or what that looks like, when you've been very committed to your family, where you may have disregarded your needs, getting back to that can be difficult. Maybe you don't know what your skill set is, maybe you don't know a lot of the things anymore because you just never sat down with yourself. And so we break that assessment down, but it really allows them to see their uniqueness. That is really important for my clients. You got to own your uniqueness. The killer comparison trap is real and those are the things that we have to do.

Tonya Carter: 25:57

We discuss forgiveness. I am an advocate for forgiveness. I know people say you don't have to forgive you don't, because forgiveness is a choice, but I encourage my clients to understand the importance of choosing and what that does to your heart, what that does to your physical health we talk about, really. We go back to your relationship story, more so the one that you have with yourself. What kind of relationship that you've cultivated with yourself up until now. So, if you're 35 years old, what relationship do you have with your 35 year old self, based upon when you were born? And so we do an entire exercise on that, and it can be very emotional, because it causes you to confront things that you've never allowed yourself to face, and also, knowing the relationship you had with your ex, not from a place of bashing.

Tonya Carter: 26:48

I don't really promote that. I'm going to be honest with you, shade, because I don't really think it helps. I get you're angry or hurt. I want to feel that with you, but what I don't want you to do is make this about him where it takes away from you focusing on you. I want you to focus on the relationship and its entirety, to how you all were when you were dating. How did you look at your singleness? Now my you. I got a whole lot of questions for them to answer, but this is just kind of giving you just a, you know? Just a brief outline. You know what it was like. How was the communication? Did you know your love language? Did he know his? Did you all pour into each other's love tank? Just really knowing when there was a problem, did you address it? Things that we have to know. What's the problem here? What type of even to what type of drama we may have created? Some of us are rescuers.

Tonya Carter: 27:40

We need to know if we're a rescuer. So we go, we kind of go deep in this 12 week program. A lot of my clients don't like it, they don't like me a lot in this program.

Tonya Carter: 27:49

But they look me in the head. They be like coach. I just don't like you right now. I said I love you too and we'll just crack jokes about it. But they appreciate it because it does stretch them. But a lot gets revealed in themselves in this program and that's my goal. I mean, if you're going to pay me to help you, then it's my responsibility to do that.

Sade Curry: 28:10

Yeah, I mean even just having. How many places can we go? Where you've got this other human being just focused on you. So this, this person, this coach, therapist, whoever is focused on you and is insisting that you focus on you too, I don't know anywhere else we can go to have that. Yeah, kids with our friends, whoever it is, everyone's like it's 50, 50. People have focused on themselves, maybe a little bit focused on you. Maybe you have a sibling or a best friend that you're close to and they'll give you some of their attention. When you work with a coach or you work with a therapist, that they're like no, you're not accustomed to looking at yourself. I'm here to look at you and you're here to look at you and it could be uncomfortable for a while.

Tonya Carter: 28:53

It can be very uncomfortable because we can look at that as selfish, or we can be in denial, because when we're always helping other people, that can just be a way to avoid ourselves.

Sade Curry: 29:06

Yes, oh my gosh, say that because that is a lot of time. We don't want to look at ourselves and we've practiced not looking at ourselves, so those two things together can make it a challenge. I remember coming out of my marriage I was not in touch with any emotions. I had probably the last two years. I think numb was 100% what I was like. I was not feeling and I knew I wasn't feeling anything. So just starting that work that you mentioned about naming my emotions, getting that emotions wheel and just being like narrowing the emotion down to its component parts, that was some of the best work that I ever did.

Tonya Carter: 29:49

Yeah, it's amazing and what ends up happening. You realize how important it is to validate your feelings Moving forward, whether, if you know relationship, your job, you just see that it's a part of you now and that's what I want my clients to do, and it just helps them navigate different situations. I would be lying if I say that life doesn't happen. It's going to happen regardless and we got to know how to navigate these different experiences intelligently. Yeah, 100%.

Sade Curry: 30:24

So then, how does this affect dating In your and I know you've dated as well We've talked about this dating streets.

Tonya Carter: 30:32

I know these data streets, girl. I'm trying to tell you.

Sade Curry: 30:35

So how does your work and your personal experience inform, kind of like how you help your clients move into choosing whether or not they want a new relationship and then walking the steps to having another relationship?

Tonya Carter: 30:51

Yeah, that's a good question. So I'm going to be honest with you. I definitely encourage my clients to not date on the program, and I say that because I feel as if it's so forced for people to do after a marriage and a relationship. Just get back out there, and I'm not sure if that's the best dating advice. You can go out there, being very vulnerable to situations, and find yourself making a lot of the same decisions that you even made previously, only to just bring more hurt to the table. So taking a, you know, because in my opinion I'm going to be honest data is not going anywhere and it's important to look at it from that perspective and don't feel forced to date so soon Now. With that being said, what's really important in my program is for my clients to know what they value. Your value should be a reflection of how you live in every area of your life. When you start to compromise your values, then we have a problem, and many of us, when we lose ourselves in these relationships, a lot of us may have been disconnected from our values or never took the time to know what they are. You should lead in dating in regards to your values.

Tonya Carter: 32:06

One of the things I realized, Sade, is that I went out in this data world very vulnerable, extremely vulnerable and looking for someone to pick me because I felt so rejected and I needed someone to choose me so I can feel validated. Not only that, I found myself telling too much, and that's not good, especially when you're vulnerable, because that's just a way for people to know what to do to pull you close. And I'm not gonna lie, I was naive to dating. I was, I thought, because I'm real, everybody else would be real. I thought, because I was a good woman, everybody would see it's so naive. Now, none of that I think about it was just a mess, right. I realized that I overly function because I wanted someone to choose me and when you didn't, I would do more in hopes that you did. And this is why I'm an advocate for taking a break on dating, because all that came from the work that I didn't do on myself. The beauty in doing the work is that it heightens your discernment, it cultivates self-trust, right. So you go out with a different energy, you don't leave from desperation, you leave from desire and you're in tune with what you want.

Tonya Carter: 33:26

Some women may be in a place where they don't want to purposely date. Some women may want to casually date, but even in whatever category you choose to date, you're very clear on your boundaries. I know for me. I'm in a place where I do it on purpose and it doesn't take long for me to know that this is something I don't need to entertain.

Tonya Carter: 33:47

What made me so mad at myself is because I ignore what I knew. But when you're not in tune with yourself and when you want to control the outcome, you ignore everything that is being displayed. And so I'm at a place where I don't leave from pick me because I'm already chosen, and that's a very good place to be and live from, because culturally I feel very strong that women are very judged by their relationship status. If you don't have a man, if you're not in a relationship, something got to be wrong with you, and you internalize that, and what you do is that you find ways to verify what they're saying and you keep believing that if I keep changing everything about myself, then somebody's going to pick me, and that's the wrong energy to take out in a dating world. You know what I mean, and so I realized that I had to embrace my singleness, and that's something that we don't talk about a lot.

Tonya Carter: 34:44

We tell people we look at singleness as this disease, as if it's something that defines your work in terms of an individual. But we have to understand what single means. Single means whole. It means to be distinct. It means to be your own individual. And why don't you want to be that person? You want to go in being your own individual, as opposed to looking and seeking for someone else to validate you. And so I talk about singleness in that aspect, because if we're not embracing it, we're tolerating it, and when you tolerate it, you find yourself going out finding anything to replace that status, only to keep being in the same position. Yeah, all because you don't like being single. And so it's important for people to define how they perceive their singleness, because your singleness is a state, it's an individuality. If you don't understand that you are distinct from people, you'll always feel like you need them to validate you. Yeah, 100%.

Sade Curry: 35:50

I mean, I think that narrative that you just described, it often encompasses a woman's whole life. So it's like your whole youth. It's all about getting ready to not be single, getting ready for that marriage, for that relationship, right? So then all of the late teen years and early twenties you spend okay, when is it going to happen? When is it going to happen? When is it going to happen? Then you get into it and then all of your energy has to go into maintaining it, whether it's working or not, kind of like we talked about how divorce gets tagged as the most immoral thing you could do. It's the same narrative, because then that puts you back into being single, whereas you're not supposed to do that. That's terrible, that's awful.

Sade Curry: 36:35

And coming out, and if you come out and that narrative and those beliefs are in place, like you said, then you're jumping right into another one. Because I got to fix this. Being single is a problem. I got to fix it. I got to fix it. I got to fix it. I got to get into the next relationship. I have to validate my existence, validate my adulthood, my success, by getting somebody to choose me.

Tonya Carter: 36:59

Right, and what happens is you forget that you also need to do the choosing, and so you're so caught up in them choosing you. You're not even paying attention to things that you may need to allow yourself to look into, asking the important questions, because when you want to be chosen so desperately, you will ignore all of that, because being chosen is the goal. And so, in regards to dating, I do leave from that a lot. I'm going to be honest with you, and what that means is that I'm not telling people not to date. I encourage people to date. I want people. If that's what you want, when you want to be married, I encourage you to be intentional about what that looks like for you the next go round.

Tonya Carter: 37:43

But when you've already been through this experience, it's so important to take time to unpack some things, regardless of what your ex did. This isn't about them. It's about you, because, even looking statistically, the second and third time marriages go up. So we're missing some things here, and I think one of the things is really how we bond with the next person. A lot of us bond off of past trauma that we just never unpack, and so that's why I encourage this, because it changes. It allows you to know what you need in somebody Like I know what I need. It is no, I'm so clear. There's no. Well, I don't know. Like I know, and I'm going to safely say that there was a part of me that always knew I had to just love myself enough to know that I can have it.

Tonya Carter: 38:37

So I don't entertain things for a long period of time. I don't need a long time. I already know and, and. But you know why? Because I realized that I did too much work on myself. And if I, if this is a area of my life when marriage, or if marriage is one of those things that I get an opportunity to experience again, I want that person to get the best of me. It takes a lot of work to bounce back from a heartbreak. The last thing I need to do is entertain someone that I already know doesn't align. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like, save yourself some of these heartbreaks. You know what I'm saying. We'll, we'll, keep entertaining stuff, and I'm like you see this, though, you know, and I want and the thing is, I want you to trust yourself to make that decision and be okay with the exchange, because some of us fear rejection. Well, if I say this, they may not talk to me anymore. Well, that may be what you need. You might need for them not to talk to you anymore 100%.

Tonya Carter: 39:33

Why do you want them to still be around if they can't? You see what I'm saying. If you know this person sporadically texts you and they're not available emotionally, why do you want them around? You got to be okay with the exchange. You got to be okay with having these uncomfortable conversations and letting people know where you stand and how you feel, and be okay with the outcome and understand that that's something that you can't control. You can only control your approach and your delivery in regards to what it is you need to say.

Sade Curry: 40:05

Yeah, yeah. I love that Not wanting to control the outcome, because that outcome is like gotta have the relationship, gotta have the relationship.

Tonya Carter: 40:11

Yeah, and if that's the outcome, you'll do it by any means. Yeah, even if I disregard my needs and my boundaries, even if I don't say anything, I'm just gonna keep quiet and I'm gonna keep the peace. But you're unpeaceful, and peacemakers solve problems, and that's what people have to understand. Peacemakers come up with solutions. They don't just sit there and act like nothing's there. They're like no, this is a problem. And the peacemaker says, hey, let's talk about this. Let's have a conversation respectfully, but let's talk about it.

Sade Curry: 40:43

That's how you understand what I'm saying. You're making something. A peacemaker is making something, of course.

Tonya Carter: 40:50

And people say, well, I just want to keep the peace, but you're unpeaceful and your needs matter. They are significant. Can a person give you everything? I doubt that. That's why that wholeness and that singleness is important, Because when you come in empty, you're looking for them to feel a void. That really is your responsibility to do.

Sade Curry: 41:13

Yeah, amazing. So, going from you know, when you started dating, being more naive, doing this work that you've talked about, becoming whole what has dating looked like for you since that shift and since you've put all this together that you now, you know, give other women?

Tonya Carter: 41:30

Well, as for me, my dating life is very simple. I had to be okay with the woman that I was and not conform to what society says I need to be. I realized that I'm not a woman that do situationships. I don't like unclear. I don't like anything to be unclear in this area. I realized that if I'm single, I'm single. I don't need friends with benefits. So I eliminated everything off the table for me. Now I know I'm not saying that this is for everybody's shoddy right.

Sade Curry: 42:03

I'm just-.

Tonya Carter: 42:04

It's all good, you know what I mean.

Tonya Carter: 42:06

Right, because I think it's important to make sure who you are, to really know what works for you, because, again, we're talking about saving ourselves unnecessary heartbreak. Right, so I can talk to a person one of the gifts that I do have. I have a gift of discernment and I trust myself a lot and I can tell very quickly this isn't what I want. I get unsettled, and when I get unsettled, I listen to that. It's telling me something and I process it. Though, is it me, is it a past trigger that I'm experiencing that may be impacting this? So I go down, I process things, but the need to entertain someone for a substantial period of time I don't need that. You know what I mean. I'm very clear on being invisible to people who will waste my time. I don't wanna be seen by everybody and I'm okay with that. That's a powerful prayer, but I realized that I'm really in a season of purpose, so that's where I am right Not telling people to be this way, but this is just what Tonya is Sounds good to me.

Tonya Carter: 43:15

Yeah, because I realized that that's an area that when I used to do things, it left me confused, emotional confusion, it impacted how I saw myself and it disrupted my day because my mind would be on it all the time. I didn't like that feeling, so I had to be okay with knowing the type of woman I was, regardless of what other people were. You should do know I shouldn't. It don't work for me and you have to be, and I don't. I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't explain myself, I don't. I don't feel the need to do all that. I know who I am, I know what I need, I know what I want, I'm clear on my value system and I'm okay with that. And I just realized that it's black and white in this area. For me, it's no gray. I don't need all these different options. It just ice cream. Yeah, I can have different options, but relationship statuses it just nah it just don't work for me.

Sade Curry: 44:15

Yeah, yeah, and I mean what you're describing really goes like you said. It goes back to your values. I talk to my clients about like you got to be clear on your core values. You have to be clear on we actually take it down several layers. We start with who you are. Your self-discovery, your core values are a part of that. Then your relationship vision, cause then people just skip okay, this is who I am Now, this is the man that I want. And I add in an extra step what does that future relationship actually look like? Describe it to me. What does Sunday morning at 8 30 look like in your future relationship? Tell me what's happening in your home a year from now, two years from now, when you break it down, there's only a certain, like you said, it's black and white. There's only a certain kind of person that fits into that picture.

Tonya Carter: 45:02

Right.

Sade Curry: 45:02

There can be 20 amazing people, but when you have that clarity of vision, maybe only one or two of them will fit in with what you're describing, and the other is my feeling with somebody else but not with you. So there is some not good validity to that kind of crystal clarity that you're describing about it being black and white. Because if you know exactly what it's gonna look like, what you want it to look like, then you know exactly who you need to talk to, who you need to explain. And my guess is and let me know if this is correct that when you get to that level, the number of people that you're talking to will be smaller than when you're way more open about who you're entertaining.

Tonya Carter: 45:50

Correct, because it's like a filter. You know, when we go on a website and we're looking for something specific, we filter it, whether it's the cost, the dimensions, the colors. You know the location. Every time you have maybe specifics or specifications, it filters and it narrows down the results. It's no different in dating and I don't wanna be for everybody. I'm okay with not being for everybody and, for those who are listening, you are not for everybody. It's okay to not be a one-size-fits-all, right. It's okay that everybody doesn't see your value. What's important is that you know your value. I had to be okay with not being everybody's cup of tea. Yeah, just cause I'm a good woman, you know. I just had to understand that it's not personal, you know, because there are men that I'm not. I wasn't interested in that, was interested in me, right? So we, you know, you gotta understand that it's okay that the numbers narrow down. It's okay to not be for everybody and that's where I was with it. I don't wanna be for everybody.

Sade Curry: 46:54

And you are 100% for somebody or somebody, correct, you are?

Tonya Carter: 46:58

a boy, yeah Right, you are for somebody, but all you need is that one. You know what I mean and that's the point. You don't need everybody to be for you, and I know that you know. I told my daughter this and she's 16, cause I want her to know I never want you to feel like your work is tied to anybody. You're connected to Outside of them. Who you are is so important and you are valuable and if someone doesn't see that that you know that's on them. But don't let that be a direct reflection of you. But know that someone is for you. And I tell her this cause she's 16. Girls out here dating, they like guys and she really. I just told her she could date at 16. And just navigating these conversations, realizing the things that I wish was said to me when I was her age, as opposed to don't have no babies- that was the speech.

Tonya Carter: 47:52

I got. I didn't listen, girl, I didn't get nothing else and I'm like I needed these talks. And so we have some rough talks Her, my son, and my son is 20. You know, he's been, he had a heartbreak, you know, and we talked about it and I encouraged him to go to therapy. About it. I said, because I don't want her to harden your heart, and I said it bothers you and it's okay that it bothers you. What hurts yourself is ignoring it, you know. And that's that was what I was concerned about, because I see people who are good people but they're hurt. They never addressed the hurt and when I, you know, life happens and as life happens, we just push through and we don't stop and say let me, let me, let me deal with this, because this is going to impact something if I don't. And that was what I strived to teach my children.

Sade Curry: 48:52

Yeah, so with the numbers narrowing, have you found that there are people who fit your Absolutely?

Tonya Carter: 49:01

Yeah, I love that, absolutely, absolutely. But I'm going to tell you something you have to know that you are worth it Because you can have all these qualifications. You know, I did a workshop back in May and one of the questions that I asked was if what you wanted came today, would you be ready? And a lot of them said no. And it wasn't because I don't think it's because they don't want it. I just think it's the belief that they don't think they can have it.

Tonya Carter: 49:28

And I had to change my internal dialogue. I had to know that I was worth pursuing. You understand what I'm saying. Because I was an overly functional person, so I thought that I was supposed to make you like me, and I had to. When I tell you that is a very bad habit that I had. I didn't even realize how terrible it was until I really paid attention. I was like, girl, look at you doing the most, had to talk to my own self and knowing that, no, I'm worth pursuing, I'm worth being asked out on a date, I'm worth the conversation, I'm worth someone acknowledging how I feel and caring about how I feel, and so I'm not gonna sit here and say it's been all bad for me it hasn't.

Tonya Carter: 50:12

I believe it was how I showed up in dating that mattered. I had to stop thinking that all men are bad men or they're no good men out there. Like when you go out there with that energy, you gotta know what's gonna come back to you. So you do have to change your dialogue. You have to change even your approach. If you know somebody isn't for you, don't entertain them. Cut it off as quick as possible. Save yourself the heartbreak. I'm big on that. However, I also want you to be open to something that's different, because a lot of us entertain exactly what we shouldn't entertain, and so the person who may be more complimentary to you, maybe someone that may be slightly different than what you've always wanted Because as you heal, your attraction changes too. Oh my gosh, that is so true.

Tonya Carter: 50:58

My attraction changed really quickly as I did the work. I was like, ooh, what I thought was I used to say, oh, I wanted somebody who believed in God. I said it so casually, but I really was like, no, you need somebody who has a relationship with him. And I had to change my order on what mattered. And so it just happens, when you heal, the attraction changes.

Sade Curry: 51:20

Yes, yes, 100%. Oh my gosh. I loved that I could keep going, because now you're talking about attraction, these are my favorite topics. Yes, honey, listen, I'm telling you Breaking down attraction and how people talk about like, oh, it's just this feeling and I'm like, let's break that feeling down into its component parts, right? Let's see which part is working right now.

Tonya Carter: 51:41

Yeah, I got to have you on my podcast to talk about dating after divorce, because this is your element and people want to know and these conversations are so important they are, they're missing education.

Sade Curry: 51:53

I was like, like you said, you didn't hear this at 16. I didn't hear this at 16. This is all stuff that I learned at 38, 39, 40.

Tonya Carter: 52:03

Yeah, absolutely yeah, we did.

Sade Curry: 52:05

OK, let's read some books, let's figure this out Right?

Tonya Carter: 52:08

This is an area that we just don't get educated on. We find out maybe after the hurt and the heartbreak, and there may have been some things that could have been prevented had we had the proper knowledge.

Sade Curry: 52:22

Yes, you know it has been such an amazing conversation. Such an amazing conversation. I really appreciate you just laying it all out there. I wanted to just kind of touch on your work again if any of the listeners are interested in doing this work, If maybe they haven't finished their divorce or thinking about a divorce or that, because I know there are a lot of listeners who start listening to this in anticipation. They listen to this podcast in anticipation of possibly divorcing in the future, just to figure out what is it like out there. At what point is what's the best point for a woman to give you a call or send you an email?

Tonya Carter: 53:05

Honestly, either if she's in the process of getting a divorce or if she's already divorced. When you are uncertain, like you really don't know what to do, I encourage people to get the help that they need to discern that. I still have a response when I say I have a responsibility. I feel like I still have a responsibility when someone really wants to make their marriage work but they're just uncertain on what that looks like. You owe it to yourself to get that help to make a very intelligent decision on how to handle this.

Tonya Carter: 53:45

I will say my program could still help them decipher that. But there's a level of attention that I need you to show up for because the work involves a lot of thinking and when you could be emotionally, when those emotions are very intense, it might be difficult for you to show up in the program, which is why I encourage people to maybe go to maybe discernment, counseling and those type of things, to just kind of work through that stuff right, because it's a big decision in my opinion. So I would say that when it's done in terms of legal or if you even going through it from a legal perspective, because that's another area where you're making some big decisions and doing this work to help you make better decisions 100%, yeah, so what you it sounds like what you do with them is you're walking them through the emotions that are coming up in the process.

Sade Curry: 54:49

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Or if they didn't deal with it before they finalized their divorce, dealing with it after the divorce.

Tonya Carter: 54:57

Correct, because I was divorced five years and it wasn't about one of my ex back, but it was more about how that experience shaped me, and that's the part that I want people to make sure that they don't do is let this experience shape them in a way that keeps them, maybe stuck, yeah, and so divorcing a story is important because it helps you rebuild and redesign a new life, and that's why I really want people to focus on Most women I would say most women that I work with I would say 99% don't want their marriage back.

Sade Curry: 55:34

Mm-hmm, yeah, amazing.

Tonya Carter: 55:36

But it is the impact of what happened, Certain things that took place. It impacts you.

Sade Curry: 55:43

Yeah, yeah, wonderful. All right listeners. I just want to encourage you to reach out to Tonya if you are in that space that she's described. Tonya, can you tell the listeners where they can find you if they want to connect with you Websites, social media handles and your podcast again?

Tonya Carter: 56:00

Yes, you can reach out to me. I'm always on Instagram. I am Tonya Carter, my Facebook is Tonya Carter Website, Tonya Carter. com and my podcast is called Purposely Thriving, working on Change of the Name soon, but you can find that on all podcast platforms iTunes, spotify, google. I'm everywhere.

Sade Curry: 56:25

Absolutely. And for those of you who are kind of just wanting to remember, Tonya Carter is with Tonya with an O.

Tonya Carter: 56:32

Okay, yes.

Sade Curry: 56:32

C-A-R-T-E-R. All right well, yes, so connect with her, follow her on Instagram, connect with her on her website, definitely check out her podcast. Tonya, thank you so much for being here today. Really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate you Absolutely, and listeners, we appreciate your time and attention and we will see you next time.