256. Burned Haystack Dating Method with Dr. Jennie Young

Every time Dr. Jennie Young used Bumble or Hinge, the same thing happened: high hopes on day one, horror by day two. Then she remembered what she does for a living.

Dr. Jennie is a rhetoric professor. She spent years doing critical discourse analysis on high school disciplinary handbooks — coding for toxic, gendered language patterns hidden inside official policies. One day, she turned that same academic lens on men's dating profiles.

What she found? Thirty-three distinct rhetorical patterns. The Blue Ribbon for Bare Minimum. The Cuddle Bears. The Test-and-Apologize. Patterns that reveal — before the first date — exactly what kind of man you're dealing with.

Over 260,000 women are now using her Burned Haystack Dating Method to stop calculating and start recognizing.

In this episode, Dr. Jennie and I get into all of it — the patterns, the political landscape of dating in 2026, why women are not too picky, and what a genuinely good profile actually looks like. She also shares how she used her own method to find her partner.

You've already seen these profile patterns. This episode will help you interpret them.

If you want to build your own dating strategy from your core values — not someone else's checklist — book a relationship strategy session with me:

👉 sadecurry.com/schedule-appointment

Transcript

Extraordinary Life and Dating After Divorce Podcast

Episode: The Burned Haystack Dating Method with Dr. Jennie Young

Sade: Hello everybody, welcome back to the Extraordinary Life and Dating After Divorce Podcast. I am your host, Sade Curry. It is a pleasure to be back with you all today, and I have in the studio a very special guest. I know most of you have heard of her because we have talked about her sometimes in the coaching classes I host here on the podcast — Dr. Jennie Young of the Burned Haystack Dating Method. She's here to share with us about her upcoming book, her method, and all things dating on the internet in 2026.
I'm going to read her bio real quick so that those of you who are not familiar with her work have some background, and then Dr. Jennie is going to share all of her wisdom with us. She's a rhetoric professor and creator of the viral Burned Haystack Dating Method, and she teaches women how to decode the language men use on dating apps to quickly identify red flags. She has an upcoming book, Burn the Haystack: Decode Dating, Torch the Duds, and Make Room for the Men Who Matter. Basically, what she does is explore how common phrases in dating profiles can reveal much more than they appear to, so you can avoid wasting time on incompatible matches before the first date ever happens.
I heard of the method because I read her article after it went viral, and there's a community of over 260,000 women who are now using this to decode dating profiles on the internet. This is going to be a fun conversation. Dr. Young, welcome to the podcast. Please tell the listeners a little bit about yourself.

Dr. Jennie: Hi everyone, thank you for having me. I am a single woman who got fed up with my experience on the dating apps and decided to use my academic expertise — which is applied rhetoric; I'm a professor, and that's one of the things I teach — to try to address this academically. I started sharing it, and then the rest is kind of what you've already stated: it literally, or figuratively, caught fire.

Sade: It's so amazing to see academic rigor being brought to the dating scene, and I love that personally, because there's just so much fluff. One of the complaints my clients hear from me a lot is that everybody feels they can say whatever they want about dating and relationships — your mother, your auntie, your sister. Not everybody has the wisdom to do this. So I think more voices like yours, bringing academic rigor to the industry, are very, very welcome.
I'd like to start with how all this started. You were already working with applied rhetoric — what was the moment where you thought, "I think this has applications in dating"?

Dr. Jennie: It almost worked the other way around, and I'll explain that in a second. It wasn't that I was looking for a real-life mission to apply my expertise to. It's that I was having a truly horrible experience in real life on the dating apps. I did what a lot of women do at first: I'd be ready to give it a try, so I'd download Bumble or Hinge or whatever, spend all this time setting up my profile, and have high hopes going into it. Then in a very short period of time — usually the first day — I would just be horrified and become completely demoralized, not only with the matches I was getting but with the behavior of the men behind those profiles.
Then I would gaslight myself, like a lot of women do. I'd think, "I must be missing something. I just don't get it. I'm clearly not what people want, or I'm not cut out for this kind of modality. But this is how people meet in this era. I'm not going to go sit at a bar and wait for someone to notice me." So I felt like I had two options: I could constantly feel aggressed, exploited, frightened, and angry on these dating apps, or I could just decide to make peace with being alone for the rest of my life. And I'd always end up thinking, "Yeah, I'm fine alone." I actually wasn't miserable being single. So I kept making that decision that a lot of women are making — that this just isn't worth it.
But once I got out of the emotional reaction to it, I realized this actually isn't okay. Not just for me — it's not okay for any woman that this many of us are trying to function in a domain that is so misogynistic, toxic, racist, ableist, commodified, and capitalistic. Then I really got angry and thought, "We're just not going to do this anymore. There needs to be another way." That's when I decided to bring in my academic expertise.

Sade: That makes a lot of sense. What was the most exciting thing you'd applied rhetoric to before dating? Because clearly dating is the most exciting thing, but prior to that — what had you applied it to?

Dr. Jennie: That's a great question, and it's one people don't generally ask me, but it's really relevant to what I'm doing now. I started my teaching career as a high school teacher at a rural, poverty-stricken high school specifically for students who had gotten kicked out of their primary high school. It was a public school — kind of an alternative school. Not everyone there had been expelled, but many had.
I realized pretty quickly how closely aligned that school was with American prisons — max security prisons. I started studying that rhetorically, and I eventually left high school teaching to pursue an academic career because I wanted to study it theoretically. My first book is about the intersection of American high schools and prisons, and the methodology I used was something called critical discourse analysis, which is the entire foundation of Burned Haystack. I'm doing the same thing I did all those years ago, just with a different application.

Sade: Oh, that's fascinating. So it sounds like you were listening for red flags — the way young people were described, the way things were written?

Dr. Jennie: Mostly the way things were written. I was taking high school handbooks — which contained all the disciplinary programs of high school, including things like dress codes, which are so horribly gendered — and I was coding for patterns. I was doing linguistic coding for toxic patterns in those handbooks. And then I just started doing that with men's profiles on the dating apps.

Sade: You are just out here in the world doing God's work everywhere. I'm so inspired. Thank you for your work.
Okay, I could go down the rabbit trail of the high schools, but we're going to stick to today's topic. You started decoding dating profiles using your expertise — how did that change things for you in your dating life?

Dr. Jennie: I think the most powerful thing it did was depersonalize the experience. Instead of thinking, "Oh my gosh, this is so hurtful, I feel so scared, pissed off, vulnerable, demoralized," once I started cataloging all these patterns, I could just say, "Oh, that's a disciplinary directive — male profile. Done with that guy. That's the test-and-apologize profile. Done with that guy. That's the Are You My Mother pattern. Done with that guy. That's a 'Were You at the Capitol on January 6?' pattern. Done with that guy."
There are 33 different rhetorical patterns in my book. The beauty of them is that once you learn them — and I know people panic and think, "I can't memorize 33 rhetorical patterns" — you don't have to. If you're a woman on the dating apps, you've already seen them all. It won't be memorization; it'll just be recognition. What women keep telling me is, "As soon as I saw you talking about the cuddle bears pattern on Instagram, I was like, oh yeah, I get that every single day. Now I don't even think about it. I just block that guy and move on."

Sade: I'm guessing these are the men who say that physical touch is their love language.

Dr. Jennie: It's shocking that that's 99.9% of their love languages. I think what happened with the whole cuddling-and-snuggling phenomenon is that somebody told these guys, "Women don't actually like it when you talk about having sex with them in your dating profile, because they don't know you and you're a stranger on the internet, and that's super creepy." So instead, they started saying things like, "I love to snuggle and cuddle." And all women are like, "Yeah, that's not better. That's equally icky." But it's all part of the same problem.

Sade: I have noticed that. I've been a dating coach for a few years now — I was a divorce coach first, and I'm still a divorce coach, but I really switched into centering on dating around 2021. Over that period, I've realized that as soon as I teach my clients to look out for certain things, the men catch up. It's like they adapt — as soon as we started looking out for how they treated the server on the first date, for example.

Dr. Jennie: Yes! That's a great example.

Sade: Now they're always nice to the server on the first date, and then further down the line you see the other behaviors. It caused me to really teach my clients that there are no formulas. You can arm yourself, but you have to develop the ability to read character.

Dr. Jennie: And that's so nuanced, and it changes so much from guy to guy that you can't make it formulaic.

Sade: My take on it with clients has always been: you have to own your own thinking and your own feeling. When you have an intuitive hit, or when you feel like, "Is this a red flag?" — it doesn't mean you break up with him on the spot, and it doesn't mean you can't take a chance and go on a date. But never dismiss what you're thinking, because it will only get confirmed or, with time, you'll be able to say, "Oh no, that was a one-off." A lot of women I talk to are trying to have a checklist so that they never have to encounter someone who might turn out to be one of these guys, but I tell them: they're everywhere. They're in your church, they're in your workplace, they're in your family.

Dr. Jennie: Absolutely, for sure.

Sade: So let's talk about some of the patterns. I picked a couple of the ones you've talked about in your social media content — the test-and-apologize, the blue ribbon for bare minimum. Let's talk about the blue ribbon for bare minimum.

Dr. Jennie: This one is everywhere, and it manifests in ways that range from hilarious to terrifying. On the hilarious end of that spectrum, it's the guys who are bragging about things like having a job, brushing their teeth, or changing their sheets. Some of them are doing it in jest, which also isn't great humor anymore. But many of them aren't — you can tell they really do think they should be congratulated for these very basic aspects of adult life.
On the more extreme end, I post these things on Instagram, and women who've never been on the dating apps think, "That doesn't really happen" — but it does, over and over again. These are the men who say things like, "I have never hit a woman. I will never hit you." They seem to think that qualifies them as enlightened or special. That's a huge red flag, because it tells you what standards they're going to hold themselves to. I also assume it's a technicality — like, my first thought is, "Well, yeah, it's because you pushed women instead." Normal, healthy men don't say that because it doesn't occur to them that they would need to. Their underlying assumption is, "I just don't hit people because I'm a civilized human being." So the men who are announcing it — that alone is a problem.

Sade: One hundred percent. Like you said, some of them are doing it for different reasons. There's the man who's so proud of himself for being a guy who would never do that and feels entitled to be loved and adored for it. He might truly never hit a woman, but he feels like he's the prize because he wouldn't. And any woman who has experienced abuse, he seems to think, should be glad to have him.

Dr. Jennie: Exactly. And you're right — that does intersect with the "I'm the prize" pattern, which is also everywhere.

Sade: Yes, the "I'm the prize" pattern. And like you said, there's also the bare minimum framing of, "I'm going to try to make sure she doesn't know I've done this by announcing that I would never do it."
Dating today is really interesting, especially for those of us in our 40s and 50s. We're in this almost strange twilight zone where there's so much information available now that wasn't before. It's almost like women were just falling into these things on their own, and if you saved yourself, you could, and if you didn't, well, too bad. Now, our consciousness has been expanded because of social media. My own divorce and healing journey happened because of the internet. I was 39 years old and had never heard the words "narcissist" or "codependent" until I went online and found this whole community. So now we know these things are happening. Dating is really weird because you're going in understanding that all these issues exist — and we still want partners.

Dr. Jennie: Right. And that's okay. It's totally fine for women to make the decision to be on their own, and it's also totally fine to want to find love — that is a very human desire for many people. I fear that we're trivializing that too much in some cases and framing it as, "Well, if you were a true feminist, you wouldn't need a man at all." While that might be true, that doesn't mean you can't want one. That's okay too.
Sade: That's true. I think the whole point of feminism is that women get to choose. Each woman is autonomous and should be allowed to choose what's best for her, without pressure or influence. And I suppose that opens a whole other conversation — when we do choose, are we choosing because we genuinely know what we want, or have we been conditioned to want certain things? But the basic idea is that every woman is her own person and should be free to choose what she wants.
So I have another question for you around something that comes up with my clients all the time. They'll say, "Maybe I should give him a chance. Maybe I'm being too picky, too cynical. Maybe I have trust issues." What are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Jennie: We talk about this a lot in Burned Haystack. The first thing I say in response is: think of all the women you know in your life — whether that's your grandmother, your mother, your sisters, your friends — and then think of what they've tolerated from men, and what they're tolerating right now. Then ask yourself again: are women too picky? Are women demanding too much? Obviously we're not. We're tolerating way too much. We're taking too much abuse. I don't know if I know even one woman I would say is too picky or demanding too much. I don't think that's the problem. Women aren't picky and demanding enough.

Sade: One hundred percent. And every woman's standards are going to be different. It comes back to that individual: what you might be okay with, I might want something completely different. What I tell women is: you are never too picky. Because I think the question behind the question is, "Am I so picky that I'll never find someone?"

Dr. Jennie: I think it's worth talking about within the context of certain specific metrics. The one I do think may stand in some women's way is the "I won't date anyone without an advanced degree" standard. The reality is that in America, college degree status is much more closely related to family socioeconomics than it is to intelligence, ambition, or anything like that. It's also not necessarily tied to income — there are a lot of men in the trades making way more money than men with degrees. And as someone who works with a bunch of men with PhDs, they're not smarter. That's one area where I would say: maybe reconsider, not because you're lowering your standards, but because you're changing them. In terms of how men treat us, though — I don't think we should compromise at all.

Sade: One hundred percent. And a person's demographics don't indicate their character. I have coached women whose husbands were multimillionaires who treated them horribly. I've coached pastors' wives, women from high-income, highly religious families where the men were just as abusive as you might see anywhere else. Educated men do this. I've worked with women experiencing emotional abuse, physical abuse, financial control, spiritual abuse — and it's the same across all demographics. I always tell women: you have to look at the human in front of you, which is a lot of work. Our brains, evolutionarily speaking, want to make a split-second decision about a man. They don't really want to have to think about it for very long — which is exactly where your expertise comes in, doing that initial screening to rule out the ones that are obviously a problem.

Dr. Jennie: And that's exactly what Burned Haystack does — it serves as a shortcut, or a series of cheat codes, so you can make those snap decisions. But the snap decisions you're making are rooted in very critical, extensive thinking that you've already done in advance. So when you're on the apps, you're just recognizing, not calculating.

Sade: I love that. You're bringing the academic rigor — you've done the thinking, you've deposited it in your book, and now readers can carry that thinking with them. They've done the slow thinking ahead of time so they can think fast when they're on the apps.

Dr. Jennie: Exactly. That's why it's great for speed dating too. I know a lot of people aren't really doing speed dating, but if you want to try it, I always tell women: learn the rhetorical patterns first. Because when you go into speed dating or any in-person event where you don't have the benefit of time to consider, you won't need it. You'll just be good at it already.

Sade: Amazing. And I love that your work also helps women with the investment of energy it takes to figure things out — all that thinking and calculating, investing a little bit, and then finding out, "Oh, he was a dud, just like I thought."

Dr. Jennie: And it's not even just the date itself. It's the time spent leading up to the date, figuring out what you're going to wear, getting there — that's all real labor. It's emotional labor and actual labor. And we're probably all already working a lot. Most women on my platform are working in some capacity. Now, there are women who are like, "No, I want to go out on as many dates as possible and meet as many people as I can" — and that's fine, but that's not what Burned Haystack is geared towards. I tell those women: if that's your goal, don't use my method, because you'll be disappointed. You are going to go on far fewer dates and meet far fewer people with Burned Haystack. But the likelihood that those experiences could lead to something long-term and monogamous is much higher.

Sade: You and I are completely on the same page. When my app queue is empty, I'm like, "Great!"

Dr. Jennie: Exactly! I'm always like, good job!
Sade: It means you're not dating anyone who is not right for you. My method is the Core Values Dating Blueprint — we work from a client's core values to determine who they should be saying yes to on the apps. And it's always a very small number.

Dr. Jennie: It always was a small number. Even before dating apps existed. It's just that the apps give everyone this notion that there are unlimited numbers of people to date all the time — and that's never been true. It's an illusion.

Sade: Yes. Even if you had access to every person out there, and I want to be clear that there are no statistics behind this estimate, but if I were to guess: out of 100 men, maybe 10 are people you would enjoy going on a date with. Out of that 10, maybe four would be values-compatible with you — because we all have different values. And then maybe one or two you could actually consider dating long-term or partnering with. So some people might use a method of, "I'm just going to run through 100 people to get to my 10, my four, and my two." Or you can learn how to read out the 90 and go straight to the 10.

Dr. Jennie: And just go straight for the 10, right?

Sade: And another approach — and I wonder if this is something you've addressed in your community — is curating in-person environments. I constantly encourage my clients: you're more likely to meet the kind of people you want in spaces where those people hang out, versus the apps, which are like a grocery store or a bar — just completely random.

Dr. Jennie: I haven't done too much with helping people meet in real life. I live in the northern Midwest, which is not a population-dense area, and there aren't speed dating events here, as far as I know. Because that's so far outside my experience, I can't really weigh in on it. But I know that in larger metropolitan areas, there's kind of a resurgence of interest in in-person events. There are meetups everywhere, events to go to — and just more options in general.

Sade: So tell us about the book! What's it called? How do we get it?

Dr. Jennie: The book is called Burn the Haystack: Decode Dating, Torch the Duds, and Make Room for Men Who Matter. There's a subtle dig in that subtitle — "make room for men who matter" — kind of like, if we're not interested in you, then you don't matter on the dating app. I don't mean they don't matter as human beings, but in terms of being a viable entity in this particular context, they have disqualified themselves.
You can buy the book anywhere you buy books — Amazon, Barnes & Noble, indie bookstores, the Libby app. Libraries have been really good to Burned Haystack so far.
The book is the comprehensive manual on the Burned Haystack Dating Method. It has all 10 rules of engagement in detail with examples. It has all 33 rhetorical patterns in detail with examples. All the examples in the book are taken from actual men's profiles — grammatical problems and all; we left them exactly as they were. There are also a number of other rhetorical tactics you can use to sharpen your game. A lot of that requires nuance that really needed a book — I can't go into an in-depth discussion of what a heuristic is in a podcast; it just needs more time than that. But it's also like a superpower if you're on the dating apps.
There's a chapter on how to apply the method beyond the apps, and beyond dating in general. There are also in-depth profiles of two women who found a different way to approach virtual dating, and they both met their partners doing something very unorthodox. One of them gamed the apps in a whole new way; the other harnessed social media to find someone. Both are explained in detail. So there are alternate approaches in there for people who are completely fed up but maybe live in a small town where meeting someone in person seems unlikely.

Sade: You mentioned grammatical errors — what are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Jennie: People assume I'm constantly judging everyone's grammar and spelling because I'm an English professor. I mean, it's kind of true. But I also don't think someone's grammar equates to their worth as a human being. Now, if a guy's profile is so bad it's unreadable, I think that's a problem — because what that communicates is that he didn't care enough. And the apps all have built-in autocorrect and other tools that will help you make your language readable. If someone isn't taking the extra minute or two to do that, you might want to question how serious they are about communication in general, and about dating in particular.

Sade: Like, what's their minimum standard for presenting themselves to other human beings? Right. What about the community? Tell us about that. I have friends who have been in it; I've recommended it to people. Last I checked, it was over 250,000 women in your Facebook community.

Dr. Jennie: Yeah, we're at 260-something thousand. The first thing I'd say is that you definitely don't have to be single and dating to be in the Facebook community. I'm now partnered. A lot of the women in Burned Haystack are either already partnered or don't even want to be partnered. It's become, honestly, a feminist support group. Humor is really important to me — there's a lot of humor in the book, actually, humor writing interspersed throughout the serious chapters, because you need that to survive dating in 2026. It's a killer group of hilarious, smart, feminist, politically engaged women.

Sade: Amazing. You've done such wonderful work here, and you mentioned that you are now partnered. Did the Burned Haystack method work for you?

Dr. Jennie: It did — shocker, but no one is more surprised than me. I had been off the dating apps for most of the time since the community started taking off and I got the book deal, because I'm also still working full-time. I have a full-time job, I'm moderating social media, and then I wrote the book — I didn't have the forethought to apply for a sabbatical before the book happened, because I didn't know the book was going to happen. So something in my life had to go, and I decided it was my love life. That wasn't a sacrifice for me, honestly — I like rhetoric more than I like men. But I did make a deal with the women in the community that once I handed in the book manuscript, I would give it a go, so I'd have some skin in the game.
So I got back on the dating apps last June for the first time in years. I met my partner, Pat, at the end of July. For the record, I went out on exactly one date that summer, and I'm still with them. We've been together about eight months now. Just to reassure everyone: it was the strictest application of Burned Haystack, because professionally, I couldn't take risks with it. I had to put my money where my mouth was.

Sade: I'm so happy for you. Was there something on his profile that made you think, "I have to hear more. This is someone I want to talk to"?

Dr. Jennie: That's a great question, and it's really relevant. I think women — and I used to be like this — tend to look for a profile that really wows them, that really catches their attention. But what I've learned, and what other women in the community who found their partners before I did have taught me, is that what you're really looking for is just a profile with no red flags. It doesn't have to knock your socks off. It doesn't even have to be super exciting. And sometimes, if they're trying too hard to be funny or impressive, that can be a red flag in itself.
Pat's profile was solid. He had filled out all the categories. He had a nice set of pictures — not too many, but I could clearly see his face. His dogs were in a couple of them. His daughter was in one picture, but the angle was such that you could see his face and not hers, which I thought was thoughtful. He wasn't putting other people in his profile without their consent. It appeared to be taken at her doctoral graduation. He identified as a teacher, which I thought would be a good match for someone in education.
Then there was something new I had started doing, which I talk about in the book. Years ago, I would identify myself clearly as a liberal, progressive feminist on my profile, because I thought: better to repel the men for whom that wouldn't be a good match. Trump voters can just keep moving. The problem right now for liberal women on the dating apps is that there are a lot of conservative men who are flat-out lying because they're having a very hard time getting dates — even with conservative women. A lot of conservative women don't even want to date conservative men right now, which is telling. They actually started their own app just for political conservatives, and there were very few women on it. It kind of backfired.
So I decided not to give anything about my politics away in my profile and appear completely neutral. I didn't even list myself as a teacher or professor, because both of those code as liberal. Instead, I wrote some opening-move questions that were designed to give me rhetorical information about a man — but since he didn't know what I was looking for, I figured he'd just answer honestly. The most powerful one was: "If you could change one thing about America right now, what would it be?" That revealed political orientation 100% of the time. It never failed. Some men said things like, "I'd redo the current administration" — and I knew that might be a potential match. Others said things like, "I'd stop trying to get everybody vaccinated" or "I'd get the pledge back in schools" — which isn't even accurate, but those things code conservative, and I knew they weren't a match.
Another question I had was: "If AI really does usher in the apocalypse, what skills will you bring to the situation?" I did that partly to root out the guys who would make it immediately sexual — and for the record, the majority of them did. But it did allow me to immediately burn them, which is rule number four.
Pat's answer said he's a middle school math teacher, and he wrote: "I guess I'd have to say algebra. We won't need it the way we don't need it now, but at some point, someone might want it, and I'll be there." I thought that was a wonderful response. It shows humor, it's a little self-deprecating, it's not pushy — but it's like, "If you want it, I'll help you." And I'm telling you, this is a win for critical discourse analysis, because what I just identified in that answer describes his personality to a T. That's who he is to this day. He's like, "I'll preserve this little bit of knowledge for humankind, just in case — but I won't be offended if people don't want it." He's not pushy, not domineering, doesn't assume that what he thinks or does is more important than others. But if you want help, he's there. Those are good qualities in a partner. That's what appealed to me about our first exchange.

Sade: Well, let him know I enjoyed algebra in high school!

Dr. Jennie: I will tell him! I did not enjoy algebra. I'm glad you did.

Sade: I hit my wall with calculus though. Couldn't make it past calculus.

Dr. Jennie: I didn't even make it to calculus. They basically told me calculus was not for me, or I was not for calculus.

Sade: I really appreciate what you said about the political landscape, because it is so different now. I was married to a man who — I mean, we both considered ourselves moderate, about eight years ago. In the before times.

Dr. Jennie: In the before times, yes.

Sade: I was on my own journey out of conservatism. I come from a very conservative culture — I was raised in Nigeria, and I was religious. Through upbringing, socialization, and conditioning, I was conservative, but I had a lot of social progressive views. After my divorce in 2016, I really started shifting. You could say I became radicalized — I started moving further and further left. When I met my husband in 2018, I was kind of in the middle of that journey. We did have conversations about our politics. Trump was in the picture — I believe he was running in 2018, or at least still very much present politically — and we talked about a lot of things. We landed somewhere like left of center and right of center, and on the things that mattered most to us, we were in agreement.
What we didn't anticipate was this current administration. We got through the first one, we got married in 2019, and we had some arguments but everyone's well-being felt like it was at least on people's minds. What we didn't anticipate was where things would go from here.

Dr. Jennie: Or the pandemic, and what that would mean.

Sade: Exactly. And at this point, it feels like there's no such thing as "left of center, right of center" anymore. You basically have to choose sides — which is exactly what you're talking about with dating. Women are saying, "You have to choose sides now." And unfortunately, my husband and I are getting a very amicable divorce. My first divorce was traumatic and chaotic; this one is more like, "We don't want to argue about politics every single day for the next two years." So yes, we are getting a divorce. It's my second divorce. But it's what I'd call a good divorce — if I were going to divorce anyone, this would be the person I'd want to divorce. We both know we're going to miss the good times. There's been a lot of intellectual compatibility, the kids are close — he'll be at my daughter's graduation in a few months. All of that is good. But I think the choices people are being forced to make around the current political climate mean you can't really sit on the fence anymore. And he's more of a fence-straddler — which I loved about him, because he got along with everyone — but at some point, you have to decide.

Dr. Jennie: That really resonates with me. It's a shame that it has to be this way. But I think you're right.

Sade: And I don't think divorce is a —

Dr. Jennie: I didn't mean your divorce! I meant the political landscape.

Sade: No, of course! It sounds like you've completed your relationship. You're on different journeys now.

Dr. Jennie: Right. And it sounds like you're on the journey to burn things down.

Sade: The haystack is with me!

Dr. Jennie: May the haystack be with you!
Sade: Oh my goodness, this has been so good. Thank you so much for sharing. Now that you've created the method and met your partner, and we're all about to buy the book — can you give the listeners just one or two pieces of advice for people who've been through a divorce or a breakup and are dreading the idea of having to get back out there and try again?

Dr. Jennie: Sure. The first thing I'd say to someone thinking, "I'm going to have to get back out there" — is: no, you don't. You actually don't. A lot of women are not making that decision. I keep seeing more and more articles about women who are choosing to live together in tiny home communities, making dinner together, building that kind of chosen family. There are other options, and there are going to be more. So the best thing I can say is: don't worry about it. Especially in the immediate aftermath of a breakup or a divorce, don't even think about men. Decenter them completely. Do what you want to do. Spend time with your girlfriends, your family, your pets. If you find yourself thinking, "Oh my God, I have to do whatever it takes to meet a man" — that feeling is telling you that you're not ready yet. At the point that you feel genuinely excited about it, then go ahead and give it a try. Use Burned Haystack if what I've described aligns with what you want — our focus is women looking for long-term monogamy. If not, there are plenty of other options. But please, never feel like you have to do anything. All choices are valid.

Sade: Gosh, that's so good. It's exciting in many different ways — your wisdom, your expertise, it's all just so valuable for those of us who are divorced or dating after divorce.
Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing so freely. And listeners, thank you for your time and attention today. The link to purchase or pre-order Dr. Jennie's book will be in the show notes. Please get this book — buy a copy, buy one for your friends, buy one for your sister instead of giving her random advice. I'm going to be getting copies for my clients. Thank you so much for sharing with us today, and we will see you next time.